When we heard about Second Press, the new Aus-founded ethical streaming platform, we had soooo many questions for the woman behind it, Nic Munnelly. So, we asked them (duh).

When music streaming platforms became a thing about two decades ago, few of us stopped to think about who was behind them and how artists were treated. Fast forward a few years, and we know that musicians get next to fuck all revenue from streaming, Spotify CEO Daniel Ek is investing about a billion Australian dollars into weapons manufacturing, and AI music – which has been trained using real songs – is being uploaded.

In their own way, artists are rebelling, with high-profile bands such as King Gizzard & the Lizard Wizard, Godspeed You! Black Emperor, and Massive Attack among the big names who’ve boycotted Spotify. A noble move, but a difficult one for an emerging independent artist to make, given the power streamers have to platform and push your songs to new audiences, which can in turn generate income through ticket and merch sales, sync deals, and more.

This dilemma was something that had weighed on Nic Munnelly. The Northern Rivers musician was playing in bands and as a solo artist, while pushing her music on platforms that didn’t align with her values and ethics. So what did she do? Well, she started Second Press, a streaming platform that not only says fuck you to AI music, but also pays artists 85% of revenue generated from subscriptions.

With a focus on independent artists (for now), the initiative is already attracting tonnes of bands that you’ll have heard of (and that we love) like Seaside, GIMMY, Pasiflorez, and more – it’s a psych music lover’s dream playlist, TBH. For $12 a month, you can ethically listen to hundreds of hours of music and help nurture the local scene, with the library rapidly growing each day. Head here to join Second Press as a founding member.

Recently we spoke to Nic about the trials and challenges, and her goals as a future tech-head honcho. Check it out below. Oh, and if you’re an artist and want to explore this, head here for more info.

Explain Second Press in one sentence:

Second Press is an ethical, curated music streaming app that puts independent artists first, with 85% of revenue going back to the artists you listen to.

When did you come up with the idea?

At the end of last year. As a musician myself, I’d been feeling pretty uncomfortable being on the major platforms, so I went looking for an ethical alternative. There are a few great projects in this space, but I couldn’t find anything focused specifically on streaming. To me, that’s what makes it easy from a listener’s point of view: you can explore a huge range of music without making an individual purchase decision every time, and still feel good knowing the artists are being paid fairly.

Do you have any tech experience? Who are you looking up to in this space?

I’d consider myself pretty tech savvy, and my dad spent his career working in IT, so I feel like I’ve picked up a few things from him. I think the reason I felt like I could be the right person to do this is that I’m really passionate about the music scene, I know enough artists from playing in my own projects to be able to wrangle them to join up, and I’m tech literate enough to build something with a lot of different moving parts. But I wouldn’t call myself a hardcore engineer or anything like that.

In terms of the ethical music space, I’m really excited by other organisations trying to change things for the better. Subvert is a great one, a co-operative & ethical alternative to Bandcamp. I think Second Press can happily coexist alongside something like Subvert, the same way a lot of people keep a Spotify subscription and still buy the records they want to own forever on Bandcamp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxVOUsW7lRY

Would you be open to an investor coming on board for the project?

Operations are pretty lean right now, and that’s by design. The margins are thin on purpose so Second Press can keep giving back to the independent artists on the platform. I set the split at 85/15 specifically so there’s a little room for it to stay afloat and grow over time, and you can see exactly how that breaks down on the transparency page (secondpress.com.au/transparency).

An investor is something I’m open to, but it would have to be the right person at the right time. The main focus at this stage is growing the catalogue, and that doesn’t take a lot of money. Where I could see investment making sense is later on: funding a marketing campaign to get Second Press in front of listeners, and eventually funding expansion into territories outside Australia and New Zealand, since those licensing deals often need a financial advance. If I reached a point where I couldn’t expand without it, that’s when it would make sense.

But it would absolutely have to be someone with a genuine passion for the music community, and someone whose ethics align with the mission. Paying artists fairly will always come first. I’m also looking at grants, which honestly might be the better fit at this stage. Ethical streaming has thin margins and isn’t a hugely attractive proposition for your average investor. The ROI isn’t massive, but that’s kind of the point.

What were/are the biggest challenges?

New ones every day! I’ve had to learn so much just by doing it, whether that’s developing the app, hooking up APIs, sorting the legals, licensing, or setting up email flows, creating content (it’s been my first time talking to the camera on Instagram so that’s been fun!). There’s just so much, and it’s been a huge learning curve. Every new thing has come with its own challenges, but so far I haven’t hit a roadblock I couldn’t get past.

The biggest one right now is getting listeners. It’s a bit of a chicken and egg situation: listeners want a big catalogue before they sign up, but labels want to see a big listener base before they hand their catalogue over. Luckily, having been in the music community for a while, a lot of artists have already signed up, and the reception from labels has been really encouraging. So I think the catalogue is set to grow quickly now that we’ve launched, and the listeners will come naturally as it does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4NS3vOgy-E

How does it feel?

Really exciting. The reception from the community and on social media has been so positive, and it validating that this is something people want to get behind. The prospect of it taking off honestly feels like a dream.

Tech is impinging on every aspect of our lives, how do you feel about that as a whole?

I think about this a lot. Like most things in life, I don’t think it’s all black and white, it sits somewhere in the grey, and technology lives right in that space. When I was a kid, tech just felt fun. You’d come home from school and log onto MSN to chat to your mates, or later on you’d be customising your Tumblr and posting low-res photos to Instagram with the Valencia filter on. We’ve come a long way from those simpler days, and now it feels like tech is moving faster than any of us can keep up with.

What really concerns me is the influence of tech companies on governments and other businesses. Companies like Palantir building AI surveillance and military tech, the same kind of technology that’s now turning up in supermarkets, just to name one example.

AI worries me too, though I don’t think it’s all bad. Like anything, it’s a tool, and what really matters is how we regulate it. The job losses we’re likely to see over the next 5 to 10 years are a real concern, and I’m genuinely not sure how we’ll manage that as a society. It’s a powerful thing, and anything that powerful needs to be in the hands of people with the right intentions, who plan to put proper safeguards in place. I’m also just not for generative AI trained on real artists’ work, especially with so much AI music now flooding Spotify and pulling money away from the very artists it was trained on. That feels very wrong, and it’s a clear example of where governments need to act quickly. It’s a hugely complex issue, more than I can really do justice to here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntKPRvN-fxk

Why is this such an important project to you?

Piggybacking off that last question a bit. We live in fast-moving times, and a lot of people are carrying big existential fears: how will I make money in the future, will big tech take over, what does the future even look like? It’s easy to feel scared and pretty disempowered, and I’ve felt that way myself at times. As humans we often feel like we can’t change things, but I think we have to try to build the world we want to see anyway.

Second Press might succeed, it might move people away from the major platforms, or it might not. But the important thing for me is that we at least try to create the reality we want. Otherwise, what’s the point? Do we just give up and accept whatever fate big governments and companies have decided for us? I don’t think that’s right. That got deep pretty quickly (haha), but I genuinely feel that way.

How have artists reacted to this?

Really well! There’s been so much love and support from the music community, and it makes me feel good that this is something they want to be part of, and something that will actually help them.

What are your long-term goals for Second Press?

A few things: grow the catalogue a lot, across more genres and with more exclusive artists and releases; expand into new territories, specifically Europe and the US; grow the listener base; and build a small team over time, starting with a customer service/content wiz, then marketing, and a developer, accountant and legal on retainer.

Let’s say you become a tech gazillionaire. What’s the first thing you’ll purchase?

Ha, I really have no desire to become a tech gazillionaire, that’s kind of against the whole ethos! That said, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wishing for a comfortable, abundant life. I just think any salary should be something reasonable that never takes away from the mission, which is putting artists first. Honestly, if I had more money I’d probably just want to travel more and hang out with my friends. Or buy a nice synthesiser.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3_NnrPc1g4

Do you have any fun activations lined up to support the launch?

I’d been planning a big launch party with my friend Teagan Kruse, a brilliant events promoter (The Little Poet Promotions) who curates some really great lineups in the Northern Rivers/Bundjalung and Melbourne/Naarm. But the workload for the launch was already enormous (I was pulling 70 to 80 hour weeks for a while there, working from the moment I woke up to the moment I went to sleep), so I just didn’t have the capacity to pull off something huge on top of it. It’s definitely on the cards for the near future though. I’d love to get a bunch of the Second Press artists together for a mini-festival, two stages, a few raffles, that sort of thing, and just throw a really fun party.

Dreaming long-term… who are the headliners for Second Press’ global 20th birthday festival?

King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard would have to headline. Gizz famously took their entire catalogue off Spotify, so I think they’d be perfect, and their fanbase is insanely dedicated too. I’d love Glass Beams on there as well. And Amyl and the Sniffers. And knowing Gizz, in 20 years they’ll probably still be putting out a couple of albums a year.

How should artists get involved?

Just shoot me an email at [email protected] with links to your music and socials. It’s still curated and application-only at this stage, partly to avoid getting flooded with AI slop, so if it’s the right fit I’ll set you up on the Artist portal, where you can add your bank details, artist info and releases.